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Fournier, Jacques Deposition of Arnaud Sicre. Guillemette asked me, if I sought advice from a seer, to inquire why she, her son, and Pierre Maury were loosing their cattle while the other people of the town were not. I should ask him also if the house where she was living was bewitched or not. I told her that I would go and see him, and she gave me a piece of clothing from her and from her cousin Pierre Maury. [...] Raimonde, Piquier de Tarascon's wife, [...] had a heart ailment. She gave me a piece of one of her clothes so that I could question this seer about her sickness. [...] The following morning a child led me to the seer's house. I greeted him and told him that he should guess why I had come. He told me: "Do you think that I am God?" I answered that I had heard that he knew why people came when they visited him. We agreed about the price [...]. Then he took a book written in Arabic and put it on the ground. He took place on one side of the book and asked me to sit on the other side. He gave me a wooden stick, the size of my middle finger. A small string was inserted in one side. Then he told me that when he read the book, I should hold the stick with the cord above the book. Even if I held the stick firmly, it shook very strongly. He read for a while from this book after he had placed on it a piece of clothing from the person whose fate he was questioning. Then he asked me to let the stick fall on the book. Even if I did it gently, the stick jumped, sometimes a distance as long as a hand, sometimes two or three. I was amazed. The seer told me that I was married or engaged. When I told him that this was not true, he replied that some people were busy finding a bride for me. [...] He advised me also that Guillemette Maury was loosing her cattle because some people who thought that she had too many cattle, had cast a spell on her. He added that she should remain in San Mateo because, when the year is over, her cattle will flourish. Jews Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978, t. I. 164, 175, 179, 186. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. Deposition of Arnaud Gélis, about his communication with the dead. I have often seen dead Jews, some of them walking backwards, the others forwards like other dead. I have never seen them entering churches. They wander through the roads, not among Christians however, but between them, and I don't know if they are admitted into the place of Rest. How can you differentiate Jews from Christians? Because they stink and stay apart from the others. He told me that Jews wander through the roads when they die, like Christians, but not with them. They practice their cult on a mountain or in a plain, and Christians laugh at them, calling them dogs. Arnaud told me that the souls of Jews used to wander with those of Christians, but that they walked bent like pigs. Many of them were saved. He told me that no human souls would be damned because at the Judgment Day, Saint Mary would intercede on their behalf with the Lord, and He would spare them. Saint Mary would do the same for the souls of Jews because they belonged to her race, and for this reason God would save their souls. Heresy Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers) . 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 152. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. Heresy. Testimony by Fauré de Montaut. This Raimond was a heretic because he used to say that it is forbidden to swear in order to reveal the truth. Swearing for whatever reason is a deadly sin even if the Roman church maintains and preaches the opposite. Berenger told me that it is forbidden to swear to tell truth or falsehood. He believed that swearing for any reason is a deadly sin. Communication with the dead. Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 162-165, 174, 179, 183. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. Testimony by Arnaud Gélis One year and a half ago, I was on the road which leads from Foix to Pamiers. I was speaking to Guillaume of Arignac from Pamiers who was already dead , asking him how he was doing. While we were speaking, his wife also appeared. I asked her what her grand-daughters were doing, and her son's three daughters who died in their childhood, because her son Raimond of Arignac wanted to know it. She answered that she did not see them after their burial because they went directly to their rest, as it is usual for all baptised children when they die before their seventh year. I asked her what happens to children who were not baptized. She told me that they are sent in a dark place where they don't suffer any pain but don't receive any good. They will stay there until the Last Judgment. From this day I believed that after the Judgment [...] all the children who were not baptized and all reasonable creatures will be saved thanks to Jesus Christ's great mercy, so that nobody will die. For seven years, I have often seen the souls of many dead people in different places, during the day when I was wide awake. They enter churches and spend the whole night there. Then leaving the church in the morning, they wander through the roads, especially if the weather is fine, and they go to other churches where they must spend the following night. Souls from Pamiers and surroundings usually spend Saturday nights in Saint-Antonin church. I have heard many of the dead say that they greatly regretted that they had not been buried in Saint-Antonin church. The dead used to go to their parish church more often than to other churches, and to the cemetery where their bodies rest. These dead wear clothes made from white linen, except monks who wear the habit of their Order, as they did during their lives. Lay people don't have anything on their heads. The dead have the same form and features as during their life. They do penance in different churches, as we said. Some move faster than others because those who are condemned to a greater penance must go faster. Usurers run as fast as the wind. Those who have a lesser penance walk slower. The only one who got another sort of penance than this kind of movement, was Pierre Durand who was condemned to suffer the fire of Purgatory. When the dead have accomplished their visits to churches, they go to the Place of Rest where, according to what they told me, they will stay until the Judgement. This is what I believe since they told me that. But I don't know how nor where the Place of Rest is because they never revealed that to me. I believe, however, that it is on earth. After the Judgment, God will call them to His heavenly kingdom. The young and strong dead walk with difficulty. It is even more difficult for those who died in old age: they stumble and fall on the ground, they cannot get back on their feet again without the help of their friends or acquaintances. Those who don't know them walk over them without caring to help them. These dead are happy when their friends have masses celebrated for them, or when they burn oil in the lamps of the churches where they were parishioners because it pleases God and they seem to feel better. [...] I have heard many dead say that they take great pleasure in visiting their small grandchildren occasionally, if they are baptized. Three or four years ago I saw my mother-in-law, Raimonde, visiting my son Raimond who is now six or seven years old. She hugged and kissed him with these words: "God give you honesty and His grace", and she disappeared immediately. Once some dead ordered me to say something to their friends. When I did not obey, they manhandled my body, violently stabbing me with a stick. Pons Bru stabbed me this way near the leper's house. Usually I see the dead and I talk to them in the morning after mass. I had a second cousin called Raimonde, daughter of Pons Hugon of the Force near Fanjeaux who, as she often told me, used to see dead men and women and talked to them. Sometimes, she said, she left her father's house for three or four days in order to go with the dead. When she returned home, as I saw, she was grieving and sad. She told me that she had seen La Rousse, my dead mother, who had told her that after her death, when she was washed, the good veil she had on her head had been removed and replaced with a bad one. She asked me to send her a good veil. The cousin told me also that she had seen my dead father, Raimond Gélis, who had told her that, when he was still alive he owed three bushels(?) of wheat that he asked me to return. I believed what this cousin was telling me: I gave a good veil to a poor woman and I distributed three bushels of wheat for God's love. [...] Since I have seen that the souls of dead men and women have their bodies and all the limbs they had when they were alive, I think that all the souls, either within the body or outside, have features such as eyes, ears, nostrils, and all the other limbs, just as they were during their lives. [...] The dead like clean places and visit clean houses. They don't want to go in dirty places or enter dirty houses. He told me that he had seen the souls of two damoiseaux who were suffering a great pain. They were riding horses while stabbing themselves. Their souls fell from the horses then remounted. [...] He told me that dead souls are more beautiful than their body was during their life, but that they have features similar to those they had when they were alive. Around Midsummer's Day, he told me that the day after All Saint's Day my mother's soul would go to her rest. After All Saint's Day he told me also that she was at rest and that he would not see her again. I told her: "Will she not soon be in Paradise?" He said that would not be before the Judgment Day. [...] Mengarde asked Arnaud, in my presence, in which condition was the soul of Barcelone, Pons Fauré's widow. He answered that she was in a bad situation because her arm was burnt at the very places where she had worn silk. He [Arnaud Pascal] told a woman called my lady Serres that he had seen her dead husband who asked him to tell her to behave properly, and that she would have a good husband. I found that Arnaud was a liar and a joker because it is impossible to see a husband wanting his wife to remarry. Reincarnation. Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978, 264. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. He used to say that the souls of men and women who had not been good Christians, once out of their bodies, entered the bodies of other men or women nine times. If among these nine bodies they cannot find a good Christian, their soul is damned. If they find the body of a good Christian their soul is saved. I asked him how the spirit of a dead man or woman could enter in the mouth of a pregnant woman and from there to the mouth of the fruit who is in her womb. He told me that the spirit could enter in the woman's womb through any part of her body. When I asked him why children do not speak at their birth, since they have old souls, he answered that God did not want that. Hell. Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978, 164, 174. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. If you don't believe that the souls of some people will be damned at the end, what is the purpose of Hell? Hell is the place of demons. Since Christ removed the souls of saints from Hell, no human soul has ever entered it nor will enter in the future. Only demons will be tormented in Hell because I don't believe that any Christian human being will be damned. God will even pity Jews, Saracens and heretics, if they implore His mercy, and he will grant them Paradise. Who told you that? I heard that in sermons, and I believe it because of God's great mercy. I asked him if some human beings would be damned. He told me that not one soul would be damned before the Judgment. At the Judgment, Mary and the other saints will pray to Christ and He will save all the human beings. Marriage. Sexuality. Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 267-269, 280. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. Deposition of Béatrice de Planissoles. Twenty-one years ago, about one year after my husband's death, I wanted to confess during Lent at the church of Montaillou. I went to Pierre Clergue, the priest, who was hearing confessions behind the altar of Saint Mary. As soon as I knelt down, he kissed me, telling me that there was not another woman in the world he liked more than me. Stunned, I left without having been confessed. Later, around Easter, he visited me several times and asked me to give myself to him. I told him once that if he carried on soliciting me, I would prefer giving myself to four men rather that to a priest because I had heard that a woman who has been carnally known by a priest cannot see God's face. He answered that I was stupid and ignorant because the sin is the same for a woman if she is known by her husband or any other man. It is an even greater sin with her husband because the wife does not think that she is sinning with him, while she is aware of that with another man. I asked him how as a priest he could say such things when it was said in church that marriage had been instituted by God, that it is the first sacrament instituted by God between Adam and Eve, and that there is no sin between them. He answered: "If it is God who instituted marriage between Adam and Eve, why did he not save them from sin?" I understood then that he was saying that God had not created Adam and Eve and did not institute marriage between them. He added that the Church preaches many lies. The clerics say that because otherwise they would not inspire respect or fear. [...] With these words and many others, he influenced me so that a week after the feast of Saint Peter and Paul, I gave myself to him. We repeated it often, and for one year and a half he spent the night with me, two or three times a week, in my house close to the castle of Montaillou. I myself went two nights to his house to have intercourse with him. We even did it during a Christmas night, and this priest celebrated mass the following day. When he wanted to have intercourse with me on that night, I told him: "why do you want to commit so great a sin on such a holy night". He answered that the sin was equal to have intercourse any night or the night of Christ's Nativity. On this occasion and on many others, he celebrated mass the following day after having known me during the night, without confession, since there was no other priest. I asked him often how he could celebrate mass after having committed such a sin the previous night. He answered that the only valid confession is to God who knows the sin before it is committed and who is the only one able to absolve it. He told me that in my house, sometimes close to the window opening on the road, while I was delousing his head or sometimes near the fire, or when we were in bed. Pierre Clergue had a bed prepared in the church St Pierre of Prades. I told him: "How can we do such a thing in the church?" He answered: "It won't hurt St. Peter much!" We went to bed together and had intercourse in the church. Incest. Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 267, 277. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. Concerning marriage he [Pierre Clergue] told me that many rules governing it do not come from God who did not forbid to marry one's sister nor any other kin, since at the beginning, brothers had intercourse with their sisters. When several brothers, however, had one or two attractive sisters, each of them wanted to have her or them. The result was murder between them. This is why the Church forbade intercourse between brother and sister or kin. But the sin is the same for God, either with a stranger, a sister or a relative because it is as serious with any woman, and even more so between husband and wife since they don't mention it in confession and that they join together without shame. [...] In order to prove that it would be better if brothers would marry their sisters, he told me: "Look, we are four brothers. I am a priest and don't need a wife. If my brothers Guillaume and Bernard had married Esclarmonde and Guillemette, our sisters, our household would not have been ruined because of what we had to give them as a dowry. With just one woman who would have joined our household in marrying our brother, Raimond, we would have had enough wives. Our household would have been wealthier. When my husband was still alive, Raimond Clergue, natural son of Guillaume Clergue -who was himself the father of Pierre Clergue, the priest of Montaillou - raped me one day in the castle. One year after, when my husband Bérenger of Roquefort was dead, he supported me publicly. That did not prevent the priest, Pierre Clergue, from seeking me, even if he knew that his cousin Raimond had possessed me. Contraception Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 280. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. At the beginning of our relationship, I asked him: "What will I do if I get pregnant by you? I will be disgraced." He answered that he had a plant which prevents pregnancy if the man wears it when he has intercourse with a woman. I told him: "What is this plant? Is it the herb that cowherds place on the milk can where they have put rennet, and which prevents milk to curdle as long as it is on the can?" He told me not to worry about the kind of herb, and that he had that sort of plant which possessed this virtue. Since then, every time he wanted to have intercourse with me, he had something wound up and tied up in a linen cloth, as big as one ounce or as the first joint of my little finger. He put it around my neck with a long thread. This thing he pretended to be a herb went between my breasts, reaching to below my stomach. He always put it on in such a way when he wanted to have intercourse and it remained around my neck until he got up. When he wanted to get up, he removed it. If he wanted to make love twice or more during the night, he first asked me for this herb. Thanks to the string I had around my neck, I used to find it and put it in his hand. He would take it and place it at the base of my stomach, the thread going between my breasts. He never made love differently. Once, I asked him to leave me this herb. He told me that he would not because I would make love with another man without becoming pregnant. Homosexuality
Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers).
1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay.
T. III, 1044 - 1061. Deposition of Guillaume Rous concerning Arnaud de Verniolle. This year, around the feast of the Ascension, it was raining. I don't remember precisely the exact time. I was at the school which is in front of the convent of the Carmelites at Pamiers. Arnaud de Verniolle came toward me and told me that if I went with him, he would give me a writing tablet. We went together to a house which is close to the convent of the Minorites at Pamiers. When we arrived there Arnaud took from a chest four tablets he wanted to give me, but I refused them because they were not good. Then Arnaud closed the door of the house and in a room with a bed, he lay down on the bed with his clothes on and asked me to lie close to him, which I did. There Arnaud committed the crime of sodomy while we were lying on our sides.
[1045] This year, around the feast of All Saints, a Sunday, I was in the Augustinian convent at Pamiers. During mass, after the elevation of Christ's body, Arnaud found me in the church and asked me where I came from. I told him that I was from Gaudiès. He replied that he knew people from Gaudiès who lived in Toulouse, and he mentioned Bernard Fauré, a student at Toulouse. I told him that this Bernard was my second cousin, and we did not talk any more. After lunch, I returned to this convent for the sermon. Arnaud, finding me in the church, took me to the refectory. There, he told me that if I wanted to go into the service of a canon who lived in Toulouse, and carry his books to and from the school, this canon would provide me with food and clothing. While serving him, I could carry on with my education. I replied that I would gladly go into his service. Arnaud told me then that if I would swear not to reveal the peculiarities of this canon to anybody, he would tell them to me, and describe his habits. I swore on the Bible which was in the refectory for the Friars' reading. [...] [1046] When I was alone with Arnaud in the bedroom, he shut the door. Then he asked if I would like to know the habits and peculiarities of this canon. I said that I would. He told me to remove my tunic and to lie on the bed which was in the room, which I did. He lay against me, undressed both of us and removed his underwear. I did the same on his orders. Lying on his side, Arnaud put his member between my thighs, fondled and kissed me and spread his semen between my thighs. Then he asked me to do as he had done with me, which I would not do. After having committed the sin, he told me that the canon used to behave like that, and that if I went into his service, I would have to lie with him and I would be abused like that. [...] [1048] I went with Arnaud to the Saint-Jean-Martyr church. There we found Guillaume de Voisins's wife with other women. In the cemetery of this church, Arnaud asked me which of these women I would have and make love with. I pointed to a girl who was with this woman, but I said that we should not talk like that in such a place. We then went to his house, and while we were walking he asked me if I knew which was the greater sin: either a man who has intercourse with a man, or one who pollutes himself in playing with his male member. I answered that I did not know. He told me that these were the carnal sins most practiced by clerics. Stunned, I said: "Is it true?" He said that it was. [1051] Deposition of friar Pierre Record, White Friar (Carmelite). He has been incarcerated for several days in the same cell as Arnaud. He told me that at his place, close to the leper-house of Pamiers, he asked for pitchers of wine, silver cups and food. He went there with one or the other of these young boys under the pretext that they had asked him to do proverbs and letters with them. Once they were there, wearing their tunics, they danced and wrestled, and mutually committed the sin of sodomy. These young boys also came to his town house, and there they committed the sin in his study. They gave themselves over to such excesses that one day three young boys lay with him in the bed in this room, and they committed the sin mutually and openly. Each one knew of the others's behavior, and they were attracted by this sin. [..] He told me also that, while believing that it was a mortal sin, he thought that it was equivalent to simple fornication or intercourse with prostitutes. According to him, although he knew that the sin of sodomy was more serious than simple fornication, he did not believe that it was a sin of sodomy as long as a man did not lie on another man as if he were a woman, or as he did not commit it from behind. As I asked him why he was abusing young boys like that when he could have plenty of women, he replied that at the time when lepers were burnt, he lived in Toulouse, and had intercourse with a prostitute. After having committed this sin, his face swelled which made him fear that he had become a leper. Therefore he swore that he would not make love to a woman ever again, and in order to keep his oath, he abused young boys. [...] He told me also that while he was a student in Toulouse, ... a woman who had a young son who was learning the seven Psalms, named Arnaud du Réfectoire, sent him to Arnaud so that he would give him lessons. But Arnaud de Verniolle abused this child, and committed the sin of sodomy with him. [1057] Confession of Arnaud de Verniolle himself. He explains how he was submitted to sexual abuse when a student. Around twenty years ago, when I was ten or twelve, my father put me in a boarding school to learn grammar. The school, near Pamiers, was run by Master Pons de Massabuc who became a Friar Minor. Several of us were sharing the same room with the said Pons, among them Pierre Delille, from Montégut, Bernard Balesse from Pamiers, Arnaud Auréol, son of the knight Pierre Auréol who was from Sérou - he was already shaving his beard, and is now a priest - and Bernard de Verniolle, my brother, who is now deceased. In this room that I shared with them, I slept for six months in the same bed as Arnaud Auréol. As I had already slept for two or three nights with him, Arnaud, believing that I was sleeping, hugged me, pulled me towards him and, putting his male member between my thighs, and shaking it as if with a woman, he ejaculated. He committed this sin every night, as long as I slept with him. Since I was a child, I dared not disclose that to anybody, being ashamed, even if I disliked what he did. At the time, I was not attracted to this sin because I did not have that kind of desire. [...] [1058] This year around Christmas, Guillaume Rous [...] asked me if I knew a cleric whom I could serve, and who would provide for his education because his brother did not want to support him. I answered that my lord Maurand, prior of Lavelanet and bishop of Saint-Sernin at Toulouse, was looking for a student to help him carry his books to school. I made then Guillaume swear that he would not denounce me nor the canon about I would reveal about him. When Guillaume had sworn, I told him that I knew that the canon sometimes fondled young boys, putting his male member between their thighs and committing the sin of sodomy. I said, "if you decide to go into his service, you will have to tolerate this canon if he wants to commit the sin". Guillaume replied that he agreed. I asked him if he had already committed it with a man. He said yes, with a squire with whom he shared a bed. He added that he knew how to proceed. [...] [1059] After these words in my bedroom, I told him: "Do you want me to show you how I do it, and will you show me how you did with the squire?" He replied that he wanted to do it. We both undressed and lay naked in the bed. Then Guillaume and I committed the sin of sodomy, each once. After that I lent Guillaume a book by Ovid, I don't remember which one. [...] Who told you that my lord Maurand behaved like that? Around Midsummer's Day last year, I was in the school at Toulouse. A book carrier who was serving my lord Maurand, told me that he would like to change masters because he did not like my lord Maurand's behavior. When he was lying in bed, he asked him to rub his hands; once warmed up, he fondled him, kissed him and dragged him in his bed. I understood from this that the canon was addicted to this sin. [...] [1060] Did you tell these boys that the sin of sodomy was equivalent to simple fornication in order to lead them into it? No. Both were willing to commit it with me, just as I was with them, according to what they did and said. On account also of what Guillaume Rous told me when we were talking about this sin: "do you want me to show you what we can do when we want to have intercourse with a man, and there is no possibility to satisfy one's desire?" He added that he had often done it by holding his member in his hand and rubbing it. He told me that he would show me how to proceed if I wanted. I refused, pretending that I had never resorted to this behavior. [...] [1061] I told Guillaume that Nature imposed on some men the need to have intercourse or make love with a woman. I myself suffered physical discomfort if I abstained from having intercourse with a woman or man longer than one or two weeks. And I did not believe that I committed a greater sin by committing the sin of sodomy with a man than in having intercourse with a woman. Charms Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 283. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. I kept the umbilical chords of my daughters' sons because a Jewish woman, who has been baptized since then, told me that if I had one on me and I had a trial, I would not lose it. [...] The cloths are stained with the menstrual blood of my daughter Philippa because this Jewish woman told me that if I kept her first blood and gave it to her husband or another man to drink, he would never again look to another woman. A long time ago, when my daughter Philippa was young and had her first period, I saw that her face was flushed and I asked her what was happening. She answered that she was loosing blood through her vulva. I recalled then the words of this Jewish woman and I cut off a piece of my daughter Philippa's shirt which was stained with her blood. Since I thought that I did not have enough, I gave her another piece of linen cloth so that, when she had her period, she would stain it with her blood. She did it, then I dried the cloth. My intention was that when she would be married, I would soak the cloth and squeeze it out, giving it to her husband to drink. Philippa was married this year, and I wanted to give it to her groom to drink. But I thought that it would be better to wait for the consummation of their marriage and then Philippa would give it to her husband herself. Since I have been arrested, the marriage has not been consummated between Philippa and her husband, and the wedding has not yet taken place. So I did not give it to the groom to drink. I did not put incense with these clothes to make an evil spell. My daughter had a headache this year, and I have been told that incense mixed with some other things cures this affliction. [...] The seed wrapped up in muslin is the seed of a plant which is called ive. I got it from a pilgrim who told me that it was effective against epilepsy. Confession Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 269. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. [The priest said] A confession made to a priest who ignores the sin until it is revealed to him and who does not have the power to absolve it, has no value. [...] Only God can absolve sins: a man does not have this power. [...] Then I asked him, since a confession made to a priest has no value, and that they cannot absolve sins and the penances they impose have no merit, why he himself heard confessions, gave absolution and imposed penances. He told me that he did not have any choice and that himself and other priests behave like that even if there is no merit. Without that they would loose their income, and nobody would give them anything if they did not do what the Church prescribes. T. III, 766. A confession made to a priest has no value because priests keep mistresses, and to confess to priests is as if a sheep made confession to a wolf. The wolf would devour the sheep; likewise priests want to eat us up, either alive or dead. The believer must feign to be a good Christian; he must go to them pretending that he wants to confess his sins. During confession, however, he should not confess his secret sins to priests. Catharism.
Jean Duvernoy, Le registre d'inquisition de Jacques Fournier (évêque de Pamiers). 1318-1325, La Haye, Mouton, 1978. T. I, 269. Translation (c) Jeay and Garay. This priest told me that God made spirits, and all that can neither become corrupt nor be destroyed, because God's works remain for ever. But all the bodies we see and feel, that is the sky and the earth and what we can find on them, except spirits, have been made by the devil. The fact that all these things are subject to corruption proves that they have been made by the devil since he cannot create anything stable and solid.
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